2280 (22mm x 80mm) dimensions of nvme
the socket itsel is 5mm so thats 85 mm(with side mounting)
dimension rock pi 85mm x 54mm
even if side mounting was a no go for radaxa surely adding 2 to 3 mm to the length of the board would not be a issue?) iit seems rather dumb cuz if you mount a board on top of it thats bigger then the board itself you might aswell add 3 mm to the board and keep other positions the same to keep compactebillety
RK3588 / Rock pi 5 /Development?
Yes this is true but it will be the same for rk3588 vpu support can take years if rockchip doesn’t officially open source the code.
There seem to be no logic behind your long rant.
I do agree that having pcie on outer direction is weird but there is no other solution.
Changing the layout coat a lot of money. They would go with the existing size else customer will have to pay more money.
2 Likes
id said keep the lay out add 2 to 3 mm to the length of the board .This dossent require a change of lay out at all just the m2 slot 2 to 3 mm back …So basicly add 2 or 3 mm empty board in the lengt for the slot (if you dont wanne do side mounting of the nvme).
here is the logic
doing so comes with sevral advantages:
1 direct m2 mounting or faster m2 transfer speeds/less points of failure
2 if current lay out is maintained and 2 to 3 mm i(empty with the exception of ther large m2 mounting socket)is addit in lengt it will protect the components based on what is now considerd the edge of the board.making a drop on its side less likely to do dmge the board.
3 Its better for the envirement it makes no sence to put natural resources in creating a aditinal board to put on top … when you dont have to…if you add 2 to 3 mm to lengt instead of wasting resources 4700 mm² of pcb +energy put in for creating the mounting system.
4 folks will gladly pay the 20 cents for the 2 or 3 mm since there board is now more capabel.
5 adding 2 to 3 mm wil remove the need for the external board meaning custumers can now go for more bang for the buck options like the bigger ram options.bang for the buck is what its add for sbc (would make rockpi more competitive vs raspbery pi) .
6 custummer satisfaction…How many folks did you think ordert the board have it deliverd to only find out on delivery the socket is on the wrong side?making them having to wait another 2 or 3 weeks (alliexpres) for the useles extension board.
7 overal perceptiën of the brand…they put on m2 mounting slot but in the wrong direction lol.
The GPU is the same as panfrost does not cover that series of GPU as the MESA reverse engineering starts once more.
Collabora & Alyssa Rosenzweig would probably very grateful of any early samples.
The Rock Pi 4 as its in the name was an attempt to as assimilate a ‘Pi’ format that really it fails unless exact to one of the formats.
If it fails then what is the point and why try? The Pi format itself might also fail for whatever might be a RaspberryPi5 as very likely they will have the same problems but doubt they will employ the strange off board solution.
It could be pico-itx format or whatever as its likely it will never mux pins or format exactly like any pi so why impose such strange implementations for the pci-e m.2?
first they pi format is not set in stone either…second adding 2 to 3 mm in length does not deserve to compare it with a micro atx since it bearly changes dimensions.furthermore i dont see the problem or the issue with adding 2 to 3 mm … since your not sticking to the pi format with the extension board itself either further more because of the already existing cases (that already take in acount the larger size of the extension board) there would notbe a true increase in width/length of the case and thus there for change nothing other then making height compacter.
and with side mounting i mean somthing like this:
that way there needs to be no screw at the end and that way it even fits in current format.
aldo i still think the normal mounting and just addin 2 to 3 mm in length would be better
alternative you could keep 2 versions 1 confirm at rockpi original demensions (with the extension board)and the rock 5 xL(xl standing for the 2 to 3 mm addit in length).that dossent need the extension board care to place a bed witch version would sell better?
That’s why we introduce the 3B form factor. Check Tom’s post.
1 Like
the RK3568 is even a bit weeker then the rk3399 acording to sevral websites.+The mounting board hes a lot of stuff most folks wont need.requers 2 boards to function(so higher price aswell) and it is not 2 to 3 mm bigger its a lot bigger what is not needit the rock pi hes all things onboard that we want.except the nvme not directly mountable on the board.what makes no sence at all considering all it needs is 2 or 3mm more pcb.Make it rock pi and the rock 5 (with the rock having 2 to 3 mm exstra length so the nvme can be mounted.The die hard rock pi lovers can go go for there pi format and those working with a nvme can pick the rock 5 version and get more bang for the buck (since they dont need the useles m2 extender board).
the RK3588 also more suited to be used as a light computer then the rk3568
source 
| Processor | Rockchip RK3568 | Rockchip RK3588 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Market (main) | Single-board computer | Single-board computer | ||||||
| ISA | ARMv8.2-A (64-bit) | ARMv8-A (64-bit) | ||||||
| Microarchitecture | Cortex-A55 | Cortex-A76, Cortex-A55 | ||||||
| Family | RK3500 | RK3500 | ||||||
| Part number(s), S-Spec | RK3568 | RK3588 | ||||||
| Release date | Q2 2020 | Q4 2020 | ||||||
| Lithography | 22 nm | 8 nm LP | ||||||
| Cores | 4 | 8 | ||||||
| Threads | 4 | 8 | ||||||
| Base frequency | 1,8 GHz | 1,4 GHz | ||||||
| Turbo frequency | - | 1,8 GHz | ||||||
| Energy cores | - | 4x ARM Cortex-A55 @ 1,4 GHz | ||||||
| High performance cores | 4x ARM Cortex-A55 @ 1,8 GHz | 4x ARM Cortex-A76 @ 1,8 GHz | ||||||
| Cache memory | 256 KB | 1 MB | ||||||
| Max memory capacity | 4 GB | 32 GB | ||||||
| Memory types | DDR3, DDR3L, LPDDR3, DDR4 ECC | LPDDR4X / LPDDR5 | ||||||
| Max PCIe lanes | 1 | 4 | ||||||
| TDP | 5 W | 7 W | ||||||
| GPU integrated graphics | ARM Mali-G52 MP2 | ARM Mali Odin MP4 | ||||||
| GPU execution units | 2 | - | ||||||
| GPU shading units | 32 | - | ||||||
| GPU base clock | 850 MHz | - | ||||||
| GPU boost clock | 950 MHz | - | ||||||
| GPU FP32 floating point | 54,4 GFLOPS | - | ||||||
| Socket | SoC | SoC | ||||||
| AI accelerator | - | AI Accelerator, NPU 3.0 | ||||||
| AI computing operations per seconds | - | 6 TOPS | ||||||
| Max display resolution | - | 8K@60fps | ||||||
| Video decoding | - | H.265/H.264 8K@60fps, 4K@120fps | ||||||
| Video encoding | - | H.265/H.264 8K@30fps | ||||||
| Max camera ISP | - | 24 MP + 24 MP | ||||||
| Modem | - | Gigabit Ethernet | ||||||
| Connectivity | - | USB 2.0, USB 3.1 Type-C, HDMI 2.1, PCIe 3.0 | ||||||
| Audio | - | PDM |
The GPU has thrown everybody on the RK3568 as its not a MP2 its a G52 2EE which is a single core cut down G52.
dont know why do
| Processor | Rockchip RK3399 | Rockchip RK3568 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Market (main) | Single-board computer | Single-board computer | ||||||
| ISA | ARMv8-A (64-bit) | ARMv8.2-A (64-bit) | ||||||
| Microarchitecture | Cortex-A72, Cortex-A53 | Cortex-A55 | ||||||
| Family | RK3300 | RK3500 | ||||||
| Part number(s), S-Spec | OP1, PX6, RK3399(K), | |||||||
| RK3399 K | RK3568 | |||||||
| Release date | Q1 2016 | Q2 2020 | ||||||
| Lithography | 28 nm HKMG | 22 nm | ||||||
| Cores | 6 | 4 | ||||||
| Threads | 6 | 4 | ||||||
| Base frequency | 1,5 GHz | 1,8 GHz | ||||||
| Turbo frequency | 2,0 GHz | - | ||||||
| Energy cores | 4x ARM Cortex-A53 @ 1,5 GHz | - | ||||||
| High performance cores | 2x ARM Cortex-A72 @ 2,0 GHz | 4x ARM Cortex-A55 @ 1,8 GHz | ||||||
| Cache memory | 1,512 MB | 256 KB | ||||||
| Max memory capacity | 4 GB | 4 GB | ||||||
| Memory types | LPDDR3-1866, | |||||||
| LPDDR4 SDRAM | DDR3, DDR3L, LPDDR3, DDR4 ECC | |||||||
| Max PCIe lanes | 4 | 1 | ||||||
| TDP | 7 W | 5 W | ||||||
| GPU integrated graphics | ARM Mali-T860 MP4 | ARM Mali-G52 MP2 | ||||||
| GPU execution units | 4 | 2 | ||||||
| GPU shading units | 64 | 32 | ||||||
| GPU base clock | 350 MHz | 850 MHz | ||||||
| GPU boost clock | 700 MHz | 950 MHz | ||||||
| GPU FP32 floating point | 95,2 GFLOPS | 54,4 GFLOPS | ||||||
| Socket | SoC | SoC | ||||||
| (Android 64-bit) | ||||||||
| Geekbench 4 single core | 1 144 | 711 | ||||||
| (Android 64-bit) | ||||||||
| Geekbench 4 multi-core | 2 776 | 1 921 | ||||||
| (SGEMM) | ||||||||
| GFLOPS performance | 23,9 GFLOPS | 16,8 GFLOPS | ||||||
| (Multi-core / watt performance) | ||||||||
| Performance / watt ratio | 397 pts / W | 384 pts / W |
but we cant divert to far it was about the logic behind not increasing board size with 2 to 3 mm in order to make the board more compleet and more out of the box ready so folks can spend the mony they save of the expension board on more ram(aka bigger bang for the buck)i.
or splitting it up for die hard fans of the rock pi format m2 on extenxion board for the others who dont care about the board beining 2 or 3mm longer a m2 slot in the right direction so the nvme can be directly mounted on the sbc witouth the extender board with its lower speed /more points of failure
What’s the chance that vnext sbc offering(s) would have a thunderbolt/usb4 port so one can use a single cable connection to modern monitor with thunderbolt for power in, dp-alt out and usb hub in will be possible?
RK3568 is a middle range soc, RK3399 is the high end soc of RK33 gen. No need to compare them. RK3568 should compare with RK3368.
Non as so far there isn’t a SoC that I know of that offers one part from Apple.
Its likely we could get low end GPUs working on Arm as true 64bit SoC’s are not like the very odd Raspberry method of a 32bit videocore bootloader and supervisor of cortex cores.
But not just GPU’s the cost, faff and extra’s needed even with m.2 is far more and much more restive than just normal PCIe cards.
It was an intel compute module I saw with a descrete GPU but yeah there SBC is also a PCIe card and you only need the mobo if you intend to use the PCIe.
Hopefully incomplete emulations of Raspberry Pi formats has ended, but recently I have been wondering if one edge of a SBC PCB should be a PCIe card interconnect.
It would allow a similar 180 degree adapter mobo so that any full size card can be used whilst being just fibreglass thickness cost.
Probably most people will choose to wait for the RK3588, after all, its performance is much better than the RK3568.
@ [myusrn]
both rock pi 4 as rock 3a both have ful hdmi port what more can you ask for.all things you need to hook it up are easely availble…anybody that hes a recent phone with some modern cpu wil have a power suply type c with enaugh juice/anybody you can visit most likly hes a hdmi cable plugged in to there tv set.so there you have your portable video collection.and high transfer speed external hdd.witouth the need to pocket a hub for thunderbold.
@ [XIVN1987]
I will wait for it …aswell …on my old rk3399 based on 28nm you could boil a egg with the more modern proces there will be less heat and since the new chip performce way better you could clock it down a bit further so you still get the equivelent of rk3399 but at lower temps …that way you can put in your pocket witouth having to put a heavy alluminium brick on it pulling your pants down 
…i just wish they could stop the nonsense with the extender board for the nvme and add it to there main board make it more capable … it makes no sense to put the nvme slot in the wrong direction is all you have to do is make the board 2 to 3 mm longer.
SATA SSD is enough to me. NVMe SSD is better, but not necessary. After all, RK3358 is also only a mid-range processor, not Snapdragon 888 nor Intel i7.
boot from nvme is faster makes the system snappyer (for as far snapyer is a word).It also allows for a faster swapable fille…Yes you can buy 8gb ram now…but how long until chromes cut down version(chroome light) needs more then 8 gb…(my home computer often needs more then 8 gb for browser alone)…i know not the same thing not a fair comparising but the trend is notable…the swapfille will never be as good as the ram (not fast enaugh ) but it will allow you to extend the life of your sbc a bit longer.Then there is the price factor emmc 5.0 are more expensive ea gb and are slower then the nvme(it is logical nvme hes bigger market share).if you want it cheap go sd card want performance go nvme…the emmc slot is just taking up space ofc (thats my opinion).and the nvme can eventualy move board (aka to new board) it will be a long time before sbc get up to the full capacity of my current nvme 5000 mbs…for emmc you might want to swap it to higher speeds(when a new version comes out) not needit with nvme.+having a nvme plugged in allows for maximum utilisation of bandwith or usb 3 port…the only limiting (*bye mather of speakin)factor is how fast the target device can write it down.alternative if for whatever reason your no longer have intrest in sbc you can use the nvme in a future pc build unlike the emmc 5
i wanne use the new rk3588 as lightbrowsing computer and as external hdd with build in computer for accesing: manipulating the data on the nvme as i desire and use it as media center.all of this in pocket size
Actually there is limited returns but a nvme on a old core2 duo or even celeron its not great as the CPU bottlenecks the nvme more than other storage bottlenecks the CPU.
If you have a server style SBC than fast storage can be served, application SBC need a cpu matched to storage.
The rk3588 isn’t that fast a application processor and like others say and eMMC 5.1 can provide up 400 MB/s eMMC isn’t slow just the variants and interface used often are due to cost.
Rockchip have given the rk3588 eMMC support and not Universal Flash memory UFS support most likely because they think it is out of balance with the CPU and cost.
Its balance and a RK3588 is likely to be the 1st real low end desktop sbc experience once we have full MESA drivers and various hardware have been pushed upstream.
We have a release approx Nov for early adopters but likely it could be another year or 2 down stream.
eMMC module (removable)
Industrial level high performance eMMC storage, 16G/32G/64G/128G available
400mbs
Source :
4.0 128gb
https://www.antratek.be/128gb-emmc-module-with-linux-for-n2
_>>€ 62,92<<
VS
Crucial P2 SSD 500GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe
Capaciti
500 GB
Gewicht en omvang
formfactor
M.2 2280
read (max)
2300 MB/s
write(max)
940 MB/s
Interface
PCI express 3.0
mSATA
Type geheugen
TLC
PCI Express Interface data lanes
X4
source:
https://www.informatique.nl/490234/crucial-p2-ssd-500gb-m-2-pcie-nvme.html
_>>57,95<<
i personly think its a quik choise…half more speed atleast 3.5 times more capacity…i think the future is nvme even for sbc.is why i think its up to radxa to mount the nvme up to there sbc(witouth extension board) even if it means adding 2 to 3 mm of empty pcb …ever toughtof limiting urself to the size your competitor sets is a bad idea (since they offer les features then you)…you come with more features if you get the software hardware in line you are the better choise mayby just mayby bye not limiting your board size to there size you could overtake the sbc market…(we talking about 2 to 3 mm more in length)…i know its change is hard and risky but sometimes the reward is worth it
Is the RK3588 ever going to become more than just a dream?
Wait till December to know more.
I hope they have something by December?
There seems to be some news on amlogic working on 8core soc with more than 4GB Ram support.
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