sure,
here it’s bit different, they will just run out of stock sooner or later 
Radxa Zero 3 (E/W)
There are reasons for the staggered announcement and availability schedule, but they have nothing to do with RK3588 and I can assure you Pi devs haven’t lost a wink of sleep over RK3588 boards. Their sole energy and focus has been on finalising their own hardware and ensuring all the core software support is ready to go (and for a significant chunk to go upstream) on announcement day. And the fact that software support for RPi5 hardware is feature-complete for all major peripherals from day one is why it will quickly outsell RK3588 boards regardless of how superior on-paper the RK3588 might be. The Collabora upstream tracker for RK3588 still shows major subsystems missing or in early stages of investigation; and we’re more than a year since the first boards launched. RPi5 will be popular because if you’re building a product around a board: average hardware with great software is worth more than great hardware with average software (and it’s arguably above-average hardware).
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There are only really 2 Socs avail of similar Cortex A76 level and the Pi5 is inferior in near all respects, so your math on above average, may be flawed.
Same with major subsystems missing or in early stages of investigation as the support matrix clearly shows the oppisite with the repitition of the word ‘Done’.
The only stumbling block is the multimedia/gpu which is far past early stages of investigation; and we’re more than a year since the first boards launched and it took Raspberry nearly a decade to do the same.
There is nothing on-paper as gflops/watt in metal testing of both boards the RK3588 produces almost double the gflops/watt of a Pi5 so how can it be above average?
Its OK your a Pi fan boy and each to his own, but I know which I prefer even though I have one on the 1st stage of preorder that is still till arrive…
RK3566 at those prices is also similar making Pi’s it competes with look quite average, but seems to be lagging in mainline as opposed to its bigger sibling the rk3588.
I am hoping we might also see the RK3568 in some sort of Zero format as I will be intrested in purchasing one of those to.
Do you know who you’re talking to? 
The guy who does all the great Libreelec stuff and champion amlogic molester.
The Pi5 can not be above average when there are really only x2 Socs in that space when the other is generally better in every avenue and mainline is far beyond early stages of investigation and that is above.
The remarks where not balanced to reality of its current completed situation in the above document.
Really its only the Multimedia section that Collabora & Arm are collaborating on all Mali drivers.
Av1 has been done but not sure about the others as there is a licencing issue with ffmpeg that dunno maybe that has been resolved.
The mainlining of the rk3588 for what for me has been only playing with SBC for a decade is likely the fastest I have seen.
AV1 has been done ONLY because Collabora had a funded project to upstream support for a Mediatek chip and getting a new codec merged is easier when you can demonstrate multiple implementations; and at the time RK3588 was the only other almost-usable chip to work with (and their main interest has been the bits needed to make it usable for that use-case). Now that’s been done the rest of support is largely down to Collabora pro-bono work and the usual “send samples out and pray the community sends patches upstream sooner than later” model. Hence you’re a year on from RK3588 shipping and there’s still the complicated bits nobody in the community is capable of (GPU) or fancies doing (codecs) missing.
The reason I’m a Pi fan has little to do with their hardware which is always a deliberate compromise and thus demonstrably inferior in numerous ways to a bunch of other chips and boards in the market. I like them because they’re the only SoC vendor who truly gets software support. Since RPi4 came along they’ve embraced upstreaming (outsourced whenever possible) to reduce technical debt and improve support for Pi hardware beyond their own distro, and I can post an issue on their GitHub kernel repo and 24-36 hours later a fix has been merged and the ticket chat has been directly with the Engineers who coded the fix. Their level of advance software readiness for RPi5 meant creating the first LE image (as functional as existing RPi3/4 images) took less than an hour including compute time to compile everything from sources. RK3588 is the superior chip but hardware is only part of the story.
NB: Some LE devs (some of the less active ones though) are taking an interest in some of the missing RK drm/media/codec bits so that will hopefully show some progress over the winter. It will be nice to have LE images for the recent(ish) RK chips available once more bits are done.
As far as I know Arm is collaborating with Collabora with all Mali GPUs.
The kernel side CSF code is on a 3rd revision and likely Panthor drivers will be around in a couple of kernel releases.
Also I very correct about the fanboy term as your tone and distorted picture you 1st painted wasn’t true.
From the initial above average hardware to now ‘deliberate compromise and thus demonstrably inferior in numerous ways to a bunch of other chips and boards in the market.’.
From even painting pro-bono as bad you are very likely aware Arm is working with Collabora for all Mali chips.
Raspberry do have some great engineers but for a long while they have enjoyed a monopoly and the Gump that is Ebden Upton who is more Alan Sugar than Clive Sinclair made many a little salty about Raspberries roots and community upstreaming that was a massive part of Raspberries sucess.
That is just my personal take as for several years now, I have been becoming increasingly partisan to raspberry especially Mr Upton.
So personal opinions aside you now agree the RK3588(s) is very near mainline complete and also the better SoC.
Raspberry has lost its crown and that is a good thing as Stockgate showed how far they would abuse their monopoly.
Is doing some good stuff with the BSP I guess as haven’t tested it.
I don’t have a lot of interest in the desktop side of things and I guess why I think the Pi5 fell really short is ML as the RK3588(s) is just killing ML with its CPU/GPU/NPU trio and Gflops/Watts its 2x a Pi5 and that is measuring its CPU only. The only way Raspberry can balance that side of the market I guess would be to partner and employ to provide some sort of Pcie3.0x1 NPU addon.
I am big Kodi/LibreElec fan though as I think that Jeos client connected to a shared datastore just works better than server based systems or at least easier for users.
I can not be bothered arguing the toss of anothers product with the likes of you as I do respect what you Libre Elec guys do. I will just ignore the 1st replies infactual content.
So on another question which also always seems controversial is Chromium working on Libreelec and is there any chance it could. That behind the TV media center that can quickly swap to a good browser so Firefox, I do have preference for Chromium…
That makes the perfect TV box for me and many users who are not geeks such as I who just want occasional webbrowser andf app access via the internet? I haven’t looked for ages, so if it been a thing for ages apols.
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Now radxa zero 3 w is really on allnetchina, but what about wifi? Is it really wifi 4 for all the versions? That would be a step backwards, because my radxa zero 2 has wifi 5. Is it really that way? That would be a really big problem 
.
The main goal behind the zero 3 lineup is to make a very cheap but capable sbc, so some cuts needed to be made.
The used chip is ap6212
Also doesn’t 5 mean your stuck with 5Ghz networks only and likely for many not being backward compatible with congested radio space is just as big an issue?
So likely not and the problem is with you.
On a $19 SBC its of non consequnce to me.
No. Wifi 5 is backwards compatible. It means you can use 5GHz but you can also use 2.4 GHz networks too. Also, radxa zero 2 had different versions, cheap one comes with wifi 4 and the better one comes with wifi 5. So If i pay more like in the zero 2, i would like to get more. This device would be perfect for TV multimedia, but without Wifi 5, it is useless nowadays. Zero 2 unfortunately has a wifi chip bug, so you can’t use it for live streaming games from you pc, because there are one sec drops from time to time, that’s why I’ve been waiting for the zero 3, but this is a very big disappointment if it doesnt have wifi 5.
Dunno I got it in my head Wifi5 only uses 5Ghz. I don’t use Wifi due urban location there is so many APs competing for channels anything with bandwidth gets wired.
Also I don’t expect to be live streaming games on a $19 SBC and like I say it maybe useless for you as get something with wifi5 aka Rock3c… As otherwise I guess it infringes on there own products.
Its pretty much perfect to me $19 SBC near Pi4 perf but more efficient and is more gadget for maker projects in the same way I use a RpiZero2.
The one thing I do like is that the maskrom is a proper button as managed to kill the foil switch on my initial zero.
I don’t talk about the $19 version. I talk about the $46 version. It is perfect for little project, but it can be perfect for much bigger projects too, if it wouldn’t be a downgrade compared to the previous version.
I summon @RadxaYuntian, pls tell me, that’s not how it is gonna be, and the more expensive boards will have wifi 5!
The rule of thumb is looking at what is in the devicetree for the zero3 … and there is no other chip, so everything will have the ap6212.
If you need anything bigger, go for the radxa zero 2pro, or a cm3
What do you mean by radxa zero 2 PRO? Also CM3 is way overkill for me, I just wanted stable wifi with higher bandwidth. I don’t think it is expensive or anything. Orange Pi zero 2 w also has wifi 5 but it doesn’t have integrated emmc option (and it is very cheap, but i would pay more for integrated emmc), so I thought that zero 3 will be what i need, but it seems like SBC world doesn’t go where it is logical.
Can you grab some more information about zero 2 pro from device tree? I really hope they are changing the wifi chip in that device, because there was a thread (Random wifi speed drops) where I was talking with RadxaYuntian and he said that it is “faulty” by design, and they are working on a solution with the manufacturer, but maybe using a faulty chip in an upcoming device would be a bad idea, but I can imagine that scenario.
Currently there is only AP6212 version for ZERO 3W. We are looking for potential replacement for it though.
ZERO 2 PRO uses AP6256 instead of CM256 used on ZERO.
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We all have different perspectives but I sort of follow Raspberries lead where a ‘Zero’ is a low cost, low peripheral based board that is that 80/20 that creates low cost than fuller 100% boards do not.
I don’t actually like soldered on eMMC as sooner or later it creates eWaste, Raspberry don’t see the need and neither do I to be honest.
The $19 board for me is just about perfect and I have always wondered about this from the likes of Radxa is how do they manage any economies of sale with so many variations that is a huge influence of why Raspberry have so few variations.
Also I just purchased the 2gb no emmc version as it was only 2$ more that 1Gb but just been back on and the 1gb is now a $16.00 sbc and I think personally there is a huge array of maker products at that level.
The GPU is a cut down G52 and that SoC RK3566 is all about low cost and it fits perfectly as a zero.
From Magic Mirror, Squeezlite/Snapcast Audio, Sec Cam, Mic Beamformer and a hole load of edge maker projects are avail and cheaper the base the better as I have been using PiZero2.
I also think that is where they are aiming at and yeah they have created a better product as I am switching from RpiZero2, but no I don’t really care to much about the idea of gaming on such a device or would even think of it.
I do hope Radxa might think of creating a Zero3-M2 though with the bigger RK3568 and extend its length so its just enough to fit a 2280 M.2 on its base and likely top side there is now enough room for a Nic.
You can get Nvme for the price of eMMC in fact its cheaper as 1st click Google is
https://www.stuff-uk.net/p-2248472.aspx £7.86 but its biggest factor is its not soldered onto the board, just as is a SD card.
I can not even see the point in eMMC anymore especially soldered on varieties and likely Radxa could of done themselves a favor and increased economies of sale by not even offering it as higher end boards do, even if it is strange when they also can fit NVME.
I sort of get it as Radxa isn’t just manufacturer the are also a custom desgn house and they are showing off what they can do, as quite a few SBC manufacturers are.
I would love to see a Zero3-M2 likely with better WiFi still budget priced, but obviously it costs more.
Everybody has different takes but for me but where they have placed the Zero3 is perfect and I have no interest in versions above the 2gb no-emmc.
Mali-G52 1-Core-2EE is also sometimes refferred to a G52-Lite as its not even full GL and inferior to even the G31-MP2 on the original Zero.
If I remember correctly because Arm calls ‘shader cores’ ‘Execution Engines’ the Mali-G52 2EE is called so because its a single core with only 2EE when the G52 usually has x4.
Its likely you need a Zero with a WiFi fix or wait for the Zero2-Pro that whispers have it is going to be soon with a Amlogic A311D with a full blown ARM MaliTM-G52 MP4(6EE).
Now I have seen the 1gb for $16 I guess I should buy one of those also to bench directly against the Rpi02.
You are right about soldered emmc, it could be swappable, or there is 2240 m.2 which is low in size, but high in price (but i think it will be lower if steamdeck will be outdated). Although i like the soldered emmc, because it surely cheaper to produce, but waaay faster and reliable than a microsd of all kind, and I don’t know why would it be waste (pls explain it further, i don’t get it). A fully m.2 2280 would take so much space that zero form factor would be ruined. Also i think they can manage the versions pretty good for zero 2, because there is no more version for the zero 2 than the zero 3, but the wifi chip is not changed for the pricier one.
For the gaming part: I would use it for all other kind of media too, because tv stick are just lamely low in performance, but the problem was coming for the zero 2 in streaming games from my pc to my tv (which is far from each other, big house problems). So you are right about the need of zero 2 pro for me, and I’m all excited about it.
Also, thanks for the good news @RadxaYuntian!
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