Radxa Zero 3 (E/W)

(Probably not correct and (got removed) from allnet).

People is talking about it… but the radxa page doesnt mentions more than 2Gbs of Ram on an mainlined RockChip the RK3566 the hype is real… whats going on?

Raspberry Pi 5 - Broadcom BCM2712 2.4GHz quad-core 64-bit Arm Cortex-A76 CPU

Also the Radxa Zero 2 Pro is out now:

Probably I went same path today as You, first saw nova video about zero2, which never was available to get, then decided to see if that already changed checking main source of sbcs for radxa - allnet to find radxa zero 3 there :slight_smile: then checked wiki for official information, then forums with this message.

For pi5 there were many fake rumors that were stopped by “no big new product in 2023” and only one small leak from someone, day before official announcement, when there was many full reviews, articles, interviews etc. Because most of tech people received free samples, some few months before launch. Here, you still cant buy 2 and there are some info about 3 before any official announcement :wink:

Pi5 is prob a knee jerk reaction to the popularity of the RK3588(s) boards as Raspberry has never released like this before.

Standard Pre-orders
First batch
If you placed your order before 28/09/23 10:00 (UK Time), we estimate these pre-orders will start shipping at the end of October and early November

Second batch
If you placed your order between 28/09/23 10:00 and 28/09/23 20:00 (UK Time), we estimate these pre-orders will start shipping November/December

Third batch
If you placed your on/order after 28/09/23 20:00 (UK Time), we estimate these pre-orders will start shipping early 2024

Zero2 I thought was a bad idea as the price wasn’t that great.

Zero3 fixes that and seems super interesting.

My strategy was to order a pi5 from shops in different continents, and then sell on eBay whichever arrives last.

Looking into zero 3 now

Wonder if CM3 prices will be updated as it makes no sense to pay 30% more for CM3 now

They will not do that. On many appliances there is no need for anything better, but stable supplies and mature software. This both applies to raspberry. They will manufacture and sell as much as they can.

I mean radxa cm3

here it’s bit different, they will just run out of stock sooner or later :slight_smile:

There are reasons for the staggered announcement and availability schedule, but they have nothing to do with RK3588 and I can assure you Pi devs haven’t lost a wink of sleep over RK3588 boards. Their sole energy and focus has been on finalising their own hardware and ensuring all the core software support is ready to go (and for a significant chunk to go upstream) on announcement day. And the fact that software support for RPi5 hardware is feature-complete for all major peripherals from day one is why it will quickly outsell RK3588 boards regardless of how superior on-paper the RK3588 might be. The Collabora upstream tracker for RK3588 still shows major subsystems missing or in early stages of investigation; and we’re more than a year since the first boards launched. RPi5 will be popular because if you’re building a product around a board: average hardware with great software is worth more than great hardware with average software (and it’s arguably above-average hardware).

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There are only really 2 Socs avail of similar Cortex A76 level and the Pi5 is inferior in near all respects, so your math on above average, may be flawed.
Same with major subsystems missing or in early stages of investigation as the support matrix clearly shows the oppisite with the repitition of the word ‘Done’.

The only stumbling block is the multimedia/gpu which is far past early stages of investigation; and we’re more than a year since the first boards launched and it took Raspberry nearly a decade to do the same.

There is nothing on-paper as gflops/watt in metal testing of both boards the RK3588 produces almost double the gflops/watt of a Pi5 so how can it be above average?
Its OK your a Pi fan boy and each to his own, but I know which I prefer even though I have one on the 1st stage of preorder that is still till arrive…
RK3566 at those prices is also similar making Pi’s it competes with look quite average, but seems to be lagging in mainline as opposed to its bigger sibling the rk3588.
I am hoping we might also see the RK3568 in some sort of Zero format as I will be intrested in purchasing one of those to.

Do you know who you’re talking to? :man_facepalming:

The guy who does all the great Libreelec stuff and champion amlogic molester.
The Pi5 can not be above average when there are really only x2 Socs in that space when the other is generally better in every avenue and mainline is far beyond early stages of investigation and that is above.
The remarks where not balanced to reality of its current completed situation in the above document.
Really its only the Multimedia section that Collabora & Arm are collaborating on all Mali drivers.
Av1 has been done but not sure about the others as there is a licencing issue with ffmpeg that dunno maybe that has been resolved.
The mainlining of the rk3588 for what for me has been only playing with SBC for a decade is likely the fastest I have seen.

AV1 has been done ONLY because Collabora had a funded project to upstream support for a Mediatek chip and getting a new codec merged is easier when you can demonstrate multiple implementations; and at the time RK3588 was the only other almost-usable chip to work with (and their main interest has been the bits needed to make it usable for that use-case). Now that’s been done the rest of support is largely down to Collabora pro-bono work and the usual “send samples out and pray the community sends patches upstream sooner than later” model. Hence you’re a year on from RK3588 shipping and there’s still the complicated bits nobody in the community is capable of (GPU) or fancies doing (codecs) missing.

The reason I’m a Pi fan has little to do with their hardware which is always a deliberate compromise and thus demonstrably inferior in numerous ways to a bunch of other chips and boards in the market. I like them because they’re the only SoC vendor who truly gets software support. Since RPi4 came along they’ve embraced upstreaming (outsourced whenever possible) to reduce technical debt and improve support for Pi hardware beyond their own distro, and I can post an issue on their GitHub kernel repo and 24-36 hours later a fix has been merged and the ticket chat has been directly with the Engineers who coded the fix. Their level of advance software readiness for RPi5 meant creating the first LE image (as functional as existing RPi3/4 images) took less than an hour including compute time to compile everything from sources. RK3588 is the superior chip but hardware is only part of the story.

NB: Some LE devs (some of the less active ones though) are taking an interest in some of the missing RK drm/media/codec bits so that will hopefully show some progress over the winter. It will be nice to have LE images for the recent(ish) RK chips available once more bits are done.

As far as I know Arm is collaborating with Collabora with all Mali GPUs.

The kernel side CSF code is on a 3rd revision and likely Panthor drivers will be around in a couple of kernel releases.

Also I very correct about the fanboy term as your tone and distorted picture you 1st painted wasn’t true.
From the initial above average hardware to now ‘deliberate compromise and thus demonstrably inferior in numerous ways to a bunch of other chips and boards in the market.’.
From even painting pro-bono as bad you are very likely aware Arm is working with Collabora for all Mali chips.
Raspberry do have some great engineers but for a long while they have enjoyed a monopoly and the Gump that is Ebden Upton who is more Alan Sugar than Clive Sinclair made many a little salty about Raspberries roots and community upstreaming that was a massive part of Raspberries sucess.
That is just my personal take as for several years now, I have been becoming increasingly partisan to raspberry especially Mr Upton.

So personal opinions aside you now agree the RK3588(s) is very near mainline complete and also the better SoC.
Raspberry has lost its crown and that is a good thing as Stockgate showed how far they would abuse their monopoly.

Is doing some good stuff with the BSP I guess as haven’t tested it.

I don’t have a lot of interest in the desktop side of things and I guess why I think the Pi5 fell really short is ML as the RK3588(s) is just killing ML with its CPU/GPU/NPU trio and Gflops/Watts its 2x a Pi5 and that is measuring its CPU only. The only way Raspberry can balance that side of the market I guess would be to partner and employ to provide some sort of Pcie3.0x1 NPU addon.

I am big Kodi/LibreElec fan though as I think that Jeos client connected to a shared datastore just works better than server based systems or at least easier for users.
I can not be bothered arguing the toss of anothers product with the likes of you as I do respect what you Libre Elec guys do. I will just ignore the 1st replies infactual content.

So on another question which also always seems controversial is Chromium working on Libreelec and is there any chance it could. That behind the TV media center that can quickly swap to a good browser so Firefox, I do have preference for Chromium…
That makes the perfect TV box for me and many users who are not geeks such as I who just want occasional webbrowser andf app access via the internet? I haven’t looked for ages, so if it been a thing for ages apols.

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Now radxa zero 3 w is really on allnetchina, but what about wifi? Is it really wifi 4 for all the versions? That would be a step backwards, because my radxa zero 2 has wifi 5. Is it really that way? That would be a really big problem :pensive:.

The main goal behind the zero 3 lineup is to make a very cheap but capable sbc, so some cuts needed to be made.

The used chip is ap6212

Also doesn’t 5 mean your stuck with 5Ghz networks only and likely for many not being backward compatible with congested radio space is just as big an issue?
So likely not and the problem is with you.
On a $19 SBC its of non consequnce to me.

No. Wifi 5 is backwards compatible. It means you can use 5GHz but you can also use 2.4 GHz networks too. Also, radxa zero 2 had different versions, cheap one comes with wifi 4 and the better one comes with wifi 5. So If i pay more like in the zero 2, i would like to get more. This device would be perfect for TV multimedia, but without Wifi 5, it is useless nowadays. Zero 2 unfortunately has a wifi chip bug, so you can’t use it for live streaming games from you pc, because there are one sec drops from time to time, that’s why I’ve been waiting for the zero 3, but this is a very big disappointment if it doesnt have wifi 5.

Dunno I got it in my head Wifi5 only uses 5Ghz. I don’t use Wifi due urban location there is so many APs competing for channels anything with bandwidth gets wired.
Also I don’t expect to be live streaming games on a $19 SBC and like I say it maybe useless for you as get something with wifi5 aka Rock3c… As otherwise I guess it infringes on there own products.
Its pretty much perfect to me $19 SBC near Pi4 perf but more efficient and is more gadget for maker projects in the same way I use a RpiZero2.

The one thing I do like is that the maskrom is a proper button as managed to kill the foil switch on my initial zero.

I don’t talk about the $19 version. I talk about the $46 version. It is perfect for little project, but it can be perfect for much bigger projects too, if it wouldn’t be a downgrade compared to the previous version.
I summon @RadxaYuntian, pls tell me, that’s not how it is gonna be, and the more expensive boards will have wifi 5!