Undervolted pi5 penta hat

[asynch8]

Hey! I’ve been trying to setup the SATA Penta Hat on my RPI5, but I’ve been having some issues getting the pi to get enough power. So far I’ve installed the hat and plugged in a single 3,5" drive via the cable provided. I followed all the hardware mounting steps, and have just after that added the param to enable PCIe, but now I’m stuck.

First off, I read the manual and it seemed it would be possible to power the entire thing through USB-C, so I attempted to run with that. I bought myself one of these: https://www.belkin.com/usb-c-to-usb-c-cable-240w/P-CAB015.html and a brick for it.

When I plug it in, I’m greeted by the ‘Low voltage, unable to provide 5A to periphery’ warning. Did I misunderstand something? Is it not supposed to be possible to run just USB-C? I’m getting conflicting answers when I google.

But, anyways, I then tried picking up a dedicated powersupply
I bought this one right here: https://www.amazon.se/dp/B07FNMKTBL/ref=pe_24982401_503747021_TE_SCE_dp_1
Which is supposed to be 12V 5A 60W DC, and that should be enough as far as I can tell

But when I plug that one in I’m greeted with the same issue. So now I’m left wondering what I’ve done wrong. I’ve even tried plugging both the USB-C and the powersupply at the same time, and still no luck.

Do you have any suggestions or obvious things to point out that might be wrong?

[dominik]

You can power board and HAT just with usb-c cable, this is possible when external power is provided for all drives, i.e they are connected with external enclosure with own power adapter.
Pi5 have special needs for power adapter and it’s ok to use their original charger with 5V/5A. It will need about 3-15W with this HAT. Each drive requires another 3-8W and that is why there is power plug on HAT - to connect bigger power adapter with much more power (for all, pi, hat and drives, all with single cable).

[asynch8]

Hey there, thanks for the response

“this is possible when external power is provided for all drives, i.e they are connected with external enclosure with own power adapter.”

Wouldn’t this effectively make the hat redundant? Or how do I supply external power to the drives and connect them via SATA?
Am I understanding you correct that the only way to use the original USB-c cable to power everything(pi & pentahat as a test) is to provide external power to the drive?

Pi5 have special needs for power adapter and it’s ok to use their original charger with 5V/5A.

So, what’s the difference between the original charger and the one I linked? Tried to investigate as much as possible, but didn’t see anything obviously different in the specs.

to connect bigger power adapter with much more power (for all, pi, hat and drives, all with single cable)

This is what I’m intending to do in the end, but no sucess in so far. As far as I can tell, the cable from Amazon I have linked in OP should be enough, no? What cable do I need then/What’s missing from the cables specification?

[dominik]

“this is possible when external power is provided for all drives, i.e they are connected with external enclosure with own power adapter.”

Wouldn’t this effectively make the hat redundant? Or how do I supply external power to the drives and connect them via SATA?

There are cables like this:

And this is usually used with 3.5 inch drives that won’t fit there directly:

Separate power cable is connected to enclosure, only sata data cable from hat to drives.

Am I understanding you correct that the only way to use the original USB-c cable to power everything(pi & pentahat as a test) is to provide external power to the drive?

Probably yes,
Raspberry and all other SBCs are designed to work with specified power adapter and few accessories at once, but usually those not so power hungry like keyboard, mouse, pendrive, some basic hat. If You need more power then You need to take care about it, and this is exactly what is done in this HAT.

So, what’s the difference between the original charger and the one I linked? Tried to investigate as much as possible, but didn’t see anything obviously different in the specs.

Raspberry pi5 power adapter is exactly this one:

It’s 5V only with special mode (5A5V) to supply enough power to pi5 via usb-c.
For pi5 You need this particular usb-c pd mode, its bit problematic and require thick cable, on raspberry pi power supply it’s non detachable.
Pi5 need more power.

You linked some generic LED 12V power supply without PD. It may be ok, and pi5 still can give You messages about undervoltage, because as far as I remember it will do that if it don’t have original power adapter. Maybe voltage is not sufficient for pi5 on this adapter, maybe it will not produce 60W as described, it should be ok for led strips, but may not for SBC. You can try to insert setting to pi config to ignore this message and test if it’s still stable or just try to find different power adapter with better parameters (not only max power).

But when I plug that one in I’m greeted with the same issue. So now I’m left wondering what I’ve done wrong. I’ve even tried plugging both the USB-C and the powersupply at the same time, and still no luck.

Don’t do that because You may burn Your pmic on pi.
Search for good 12V power supply, there are some that You can adjust if this is needed.

Do you have any suggestions or obvious things to point out that might be wrong?

Post photo of Your setup,
I assume that You want to use it with 4 x 2.5 inch drives,
if those are ssd You need more power,
try to find good power adapter that will keep parameters and it should work

[asynch8]

Separate power cable is connected to enclosure, only sata data cable from hat to drives.

Oh, never seen any enclosures before that just allowed you to plug in SATA from the outside. Interesting.

It’s 5V only with special mode (5A5V) to supply enough power to pi5 via usb-c.
For pi5 You need this particular usb-c pd mode, its bit problematic and require thick cable, on raspberry pi power supply it’s non detachable.
Pi5 need more power.

Well, I was talking aboiut the Belkin USB-C cable I bought in this section. Accourding to the specs of the cable, it’s supposed to support PD 3.1? But I guess the point is moot, if you would require external power regardless.

You linked some generic LED 12V power supply without PD. It may be ok, and pi5 still can give You messages about undervoltage, because as far as I remember it will do that if it don’t have original power adapter. Maybe voltage is not sufficient for pi5 on this adapter, maybe it will not produce 60W as described, it should be ok for led strips, but may not for SBC. You can try to insert setting to pi config to ignore this message and test if it’s still stable or just try to find different power adapter with better parameters (not only max power).

That message is only a warning, right? Because nothing is working at this point. I see the green LED lighting up on the Hat, but nothing else when I try to list the connected drives
.

Don’t do that because You may burn Your pmic on pi.

Yep, I only attempted this after I tried everything.

Search for good 12V power supply, there are some that You can adjust if this is needed.

Can you recommend me any? I’ve been searching and I’m not sure exactly what it is i’m looking for… Because, the powersupply I linked earlier is supposed to be 12v, so what am I missing? I can’t find anything in particular when i search for DC cable and PD together, mostly USB-c stuff…

Or would this suffice right here?
https://www.amazon.se/LinkOn-Adapter-Bärbara-Datorer-Kompatibel/dp/B09KV3V1RJ/ref=sr_1_33

I expect this product not to work, I assume PD is only for USB-C, but I’m geniunely just confused what it is I need from the powersupply spec that is missing

Post photo of Your setup,
I assume that You want to use it with 4 x 2.5 inch drives,
if those are ssd You need more power,
try to find good power adapter that will keep parameters and it should work

Attached here we have a photo: setup photo|281x500

Currently, as you can see, I only have a single 3,5" drive, just to be able to test it out. Planning on picking up some more drives later if I can just get it to work at all.

[dominik]

Well, I was talking aboiut the Belkin USB-C cable I bought in this section. Accourding to the specs of the cable, it’s supposed to support PD 3.1? But I guess the point is moot, if you would require external power regardless.

Power cord is only part of required stuff. For wattage it’s complicated.
Some cables are rated to insane high wattage and designed for 20V charging mode, pi5 is 5V only and it requires thick cord and charger with particular charging mode. So You can have 120W usb-pd charger that don’t have needed by pi5 5V mode and board will fallback to safe mode.
What charger You tried?

That message is only a warning, right? Because nothing is working at this point. I see the green LED lighting up on the Hat, but nothing else when I try to list the connected drives

No, it’s safe mode resulting in decreased performance and reduced amperage to peripherals like usb. Also it’s the fact that measured voltage is low, so any bigger activity can result in problems.
But You can turn it off if You are sure what You are doing, sometimes it’s still enough power to do whatever is needed.

Search for good 12V power supply, there are some that You can adjust if this is needed.

Can you recommend me any? I’ve been searching and I’m not sure exactly what it is i’m looking for… Because, the powersupply I linked earlier is supposed to be 12v, so what am I missing? I can’t find anything in particular when i search for DC cable and PD together, mostly USB-c stuff…

Or would this suffice right here?
https://www.amazon.se/LinkOn-Adapter-Bärbara-Datorer-Kompatibel/dp/B09KV3V1RJ/ref=sr_1_33

This is nothing hard, just refer to docs:

Raspberry Pi 5 Use Penta HAT | Radxa Docs

Probably any good ATX power supply with D-shape connector will be ok, just make sure that power rating for cable is ok for Your needs.
Also barrel jack 12V power adapters are ok, but You need to find the one that supply enough power and right voltage, usually those heavier are better, You need to test those yourself at Your place. Nothing hard

Attached here we have a photo: setup photo|281x500

Currently, as you can see, I only have a single 3,5" drive, just to be able to test it out. Planning on picking up some more drives later if I can just get it to work at all.

no charger here so I’m still not sure about that.
I can assure You that with right power supply its working with 5 drives and no undervoltage.

[asynch8]

Power cord is only part of required stuff. For wattage it’s complicated.
Some cables are rated to insane high wattage and designed for 20V charging mode, pi5 is 5V only and it requires thick cord and charger with particular charging mode. So You can have 120W usb-pd charger that don’t have needed by pi5 5V mode and board will fallback to safe mode.
What charger You tried?

Belkin - 37W Dual laddare, 25W USB-C PD/PPS + 12W USB-A
(Think it should be this one) https://www.belkin.com/dual-wall-charger-with-pps-37w/P-WCB007.html
It might not have the 5v mode you mention

No, it’s safe mode resulting in decreased performance and reduced amperage to peripherals like usb. Also it’s the fact that measured voltage is low, so any bigger activity can result in problems.
But You can turn it off if You are sure what You are doing, sometimes it’s still enough power to do whatever is needed.

Okey, so it’s an actual indication of a safemode, that can be disabled, not just a warning as I expected. Got it. Would you expect that with the given cables & outlet plugs I sent here that I could do a great amount of damage? I understand milage may vary depending on the quality, but a guess would be appreciated! I don’t want to unnecessarily accidentally release the magic smoke

This is nothing hard, just refer to docs:

I understand and have tried to refer to the docs, I’m just a little stumped now that I bought a cable which is supposedly rated for the required specs as far as I can see and am looking for anything that I might be missing. I don’t want to buy another cable and end up seeing that it’s the wrong one aswell if it can be mitigated

no charger here so I’m still not sure about that.
I can assure You that with right power supply its working with 5 drives and no undervoltage.

I can attach a picture of the charger aswell, just didn’t think it would be important since I have already concluded it isn’t working, so I disconnected it.

And I believe you! That’s why I’m asking what I’m doing wrong

And I just want to add, thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it

[dominik]

Belkin - 37W Dual laddare, 25W USB-C PD/PPS + 12W USB-A
(Think it should be this one) https://www.belkin.com/dual-wall-charger-with-pps-37w/P-WCB007.html
It might not have the 5v mode you mention

Take a look at the back of Your charger, it should list all modes,
pi4 accepts 5V3A, pi5 needs 5V5A, most of usb-pd chargers don’t have those,
This is charger good for cellphone or laptop where it will use 12V or 20V modes to get more power.

Would you expect that with the given cables & outlet plugs I sent here that I could do a great amount of damage?

It should be ok.
Pi5 probably was at 5V2A (just 10W) and did not provide enough power to HAT and drive that takes alone about 8W.
Connecting two chargers and GND may damage something because it may result in more voltage than is expected, pi5 would be first to die without signs of life.

I can attach a picture of the charger aswell, just didn’t think it would be important since I have already concluded it isn’t working, so I disconnected it.

This one SHOULD be ok, depending just on quality of this power adapter. To to find something similar to that, check weight, cheapest are very light, without any radiators. I would not trust promised power - it may not deliver those parameters.
AS in docs - forget about usb-c pd chargers, You need 12V to power up everything including drives.

[asynch8]

Take a look at the back of Your charger, it should list all modes,
pi4 accepts 5V3A, pi5 needs 5V5A, most of usb-pd chargers don’t have those,
This is charger good for cellphone or laptop where it will use 12V or 20V modes to get more power.

Yup indeed, I looked at it after posting and it doesn’t support 5V5A. But as you mention later on in your post that I can basically just forget about USB-C powering this thing. I appreciate the information though and now know what to look for in terms of just powering it, without the hat.

This one SHOULD be ok, depending just on quality of this power adapter. To to find something similar to that, check weight, cheapest are very light, without any radiators. I would not trust promised power - it may not deliver those parameters.

I’m not entirely sure how much it should weigh or what to use as reference, do you have any example number to provide as a reference? I looked at the one Jeff Geerling used in his video as a comparison and it weighs about 0.2kg. The powersupply I bought is, according to amazon but I haven’t actually weighed it to confirm though, supposed to weigh 0.3kg.

I’m looking around now and found one called ‘Geekworm 12V 5A 60W Power Adapter | AC 100-240V | DC 5.5 * 2.1mm Jack | for Raspberry Pi X735 V3.0/ X880/ X832/ NASPi Gemini 2.5 V2.0/ 3D Printer/Security Cameras/Audio’. Looks promising, but honestly have no clue if it’s any better, weighs less than the one I bought but it’s close to the one Geerling suggested in weight. Might have to order it to test out. Would link it but I’m prevented from posting the amazon links this time around for some reason.

Probably any good ATX power supply with D-shape connector will be ok, just make sure that power rating for cable is ok for Your needs.

Guess while I’m at it I have a couple of questions about the D-shaped connector. I have some old PSU’s from old PCs that have the D-shape connectors, can I, and if so, how can I use these? Cuz ATX powersupply is just a regular sized PC PSU right?

I actually did salvage one from an old build and attempt to connect it to the pi, but nothing powered on. The PSU did however power on the machine it was taken from originally, so it was at least not completely broken. But it’s at least 20 years old at this point, so it might be missing something. I have a few more PSUs I can probably dig up from my basement provided that my line of thought is sound here in the next paragraph.

Is there anything specific required from the PSU specification that would make it trigger the start? Or how could I trigger the start?
I’m assuming maybe the regular motherboard pins need to be plugged in for this PSU or is that a stupid thought? Is this common/uncommon?
Would plugging the PSU in to another motherboard and then plugging the D-pin into the PI make any sense at all?

Sorry for all of these very nooby questions, I’m not a big hardware guy and tend focus more on software development, so I’m kind of fumbling in the dark here. Thank you for your patience

[dominik]

I’m not entirely sure how much it should weigh or what to use as reference, do you have any example number to provide as a reference? I looked at the one Jeff Geerling used in his video as a comparison and it weighs about 0.2kg. The powersupply I bought is, according to amazon but I haven’t actually weighed it to confirm though, supposed to weigh 0.3kg.

I did no meant that You should check Your power adapter weight, it’s just common truth that those better usually have more radiators, better heat dissipation, they can work more reliably with high peaks and on long run. Usually bigger and heavier is just better. There are more parameters that can make difference and usually You can’t easily judge that just by label.
Also good power adapter don’t have to be expensive. There are many devices on market that comes with quality power supply, really inexpensive, because they as set are deprecated. For example - high end routers for wifi4, cable antena receivers and many more. It’s up to You to find good offer for something like this. Some time ago I got box of those, 12V/3A and 12V/5A for less than $1/unit. I did not expected anything really good, but it turns out that those were brand new power supplies with with great quality.

I’m looking around now and found one called ‘Geekworm 12V 5A 60W Power Adapter | AC 100-240V | DC 5.5 * 2.1mm Jack | for Raspberry Pi X735 V3.0/ X880/ X832/ NASPi Gemini 2.5 V2.0/ 3D Printer/Security Cameras/Audio’. Looks promising, but honestly have no clue if it’s any better, weighs less than the one I bought but it’s close to the one Geerling suggested in weight. Might have to order it to test out. Would link it but I’m prevented from posting the amazon links this time around for some reason.

Yes, should be good.
BTW: if You see filters on cable probably it’s good quality power adapter.

Guess while I’m at it I have a couple of questions about the D-shaped connector. I have some old PSU’s from old PCs that have the D-shape connectors, can I, and if so, how can I use these? Cuz ATX powersupply is just a regular sized PC PSU right?

It’s just yet another form of power source. For those all You need is to make sure that it’s capable of right amount of power for 12V line and of course if it’s working.
Just connect this connector and look for PSON pins in connectors to pass signal for it to turn on.
Usually 12V line is good on those, so You should not have any problems, with it.

I actually did salvage one from an old build and attempt to connect it to the pi, but nothing powered on. The PSU did however power on the machine it was taken from originally, so it was at least not completely broken. But it’s at least 20 years old at this point, so it might be missing something. I have a few more PSUs I can probably dig up from my basement provided that my line of thought is sound here in the next paragraph.

Probably 20y old atx power supply will not keep all parameters, some capacitors may be already damaged. You can just get multimeter and measure if 12V line is ok.

Is there anything specific required from the PSU specification that would make it trigger the start? Or how could I trigger the start?

ATX connector that goes to motherboard should have PSON pin, just jumper that one to ground and it should power on.

I’m assuming maybe the regular motherboard pins need to be plugged in for this PSU or is that a stupid thought? Is this common/uncommon?
Would plugging the PSU in to another motherboard and then plugging the D-pin into the PI make any sense at all?

You don’t need to do that to get power supply out of it’s sleep mode, just use pson pin,

Sorry for all of these very nooby questions, I’m not a big hardware guy and tend focus more on software development, so I’m kind of fumbling in the dark here. Thank you for your patience

Sure

[asynch8]

Probably 20y old atx power supply will not keep all parameters, some capacitors may be already damaged. You can just get multimeter and measure if 12V line is ok.

Wasn’t able to multimeter it fully, not sure if some of the pins on the main 24-pin was already dead or if the prongs for my multimeter were too big to reach
Couldn’t find as much information on how to test the actual 12v/D-connector though, as I could when I went looking for PSU testing, so I’m a little bit unsure how I would proceed here, do you happen to have any resource or keywords to search?
I’m speculating to myself that it could potentially just be a matter of testing the 10th and 11th pin on the 24-pin connector, is it that simple? Just a guess here

I did however try connecting the d-connector to the RPI and jumping the PS-on pin, and the pi booted it but still gave a warning, so I’m assuming the PSU is not capable of performing at spec, but it would be nice as an excercise to test the 12v just to rule out any issues with the pi

Yes, should be good.
BTW: if You see filters on cable probably it’s good quality power adapter.

A filter is that little tube-shaped thing on the cable I assume? So if the image matches the product this would indicate it could be a high quality adapter?
Sounds great then, I ordered it anyways so I will post an update after it arrives.

[asynch8]

Okey,so I’m still getting the issue now even with the new GeekWorm power cable I got… It’s complaining about the cable not being able to supply 5a. Now I’m starting to consider if something is broken with my Pi or with the Pi hat. This adapter feel very high quality. Would I need to remove that safe mode mentioned?
I should probably control the cable somehow, right? is that possible even?

[dominik]

Can You please take photo of current setup and all components?

You can always just turn off undervoltage warnings and test if there is enough power for Your usage, just get any good benchmark and try to run everything that is possible, it should be stable if everything is ok. If there is no power it can restart or turn off power for some components.

[asynch8]

Can You please take photo of current setup and all components?

Not entirely sure what you’re interested in seeing here, but I tried to include absolutely everything I could, except for taking apart the PI to look under the hat.

Here we have an overview. RPI5, Pentasata hat, Mouse&keyboard usb receiver, PSU, 3,5" harddrive, sata/power connector, microhdmi->hdmi adapter.

Harddrive, connected to the power and sata using the cable provided with the sata hat.

Micro hdmi adapter and power in two angles.

Harddrive connector and mouse/keyboard USB

With all connectors removed.

You can always just turn off undervoltage warnings and test if there is enough power for Your usage, just get any good benchmark and try to run everything that is possible, it should be stable if everything is ok. If there is no power it can restart or turn off power for some components.

I added avoid_warnings=1 to the /boot/firmware/config.txt but still can’t see anything showing up when I list the devices.

[dominik]

Looks ok,
now check ribbon cable from HAT to pi5, it has certain side that needs to be inserted correctly and all latches should be closed firmly. Make visual inspection for this ribbon cable if there is nothing broken or bended.
Post dmesg message and lspci commands output.

[mark10432]

Hi @asynch8, did you find a solution to this problem? I think the same is happening with my new Penta SATA HAT. I tried two power supplies so far. Both are within the required specifications although the RPI still shows a low power warning. With the official USB-C PSU the warning is gone but then there is not enough power for my drives.

[Howy]

Some more input: I have additionally installed the radxa sata top hat fan unit, with 4 Samsung 870 EVO satas. Additionally I use an USB2Ethernet adapter to make use of 2,5Gbit/s from WisDpi.
2 Power units with 12V/5A were used for test, a cheap one like the one from the post of asynch8 and an expensive one designed in Germany (huge weight difference and I expect more reliable power without the house burning down) as well as the Raspi power supply 5,1/5A connected, together and standalone (I guess nothing is destroyed refering to the Pmic).
When I connect to one of the 3 USB ports on the Raspi5 an USB-SSD 2,5" Samsung T7, the power is not enough to power the USB-SSD and without the USB-SSD the Ethernetadapter is sometimes stopping slowly its work from transfering 250 MB/s down to 0.
WITHOUT the Radxa Sata Top hat, at least I can power the USB-SSD, but not an other USB-HDD 2,5" (HDD is starting/stopping).
What I see, is, that the Radxa Penta sata hat is not deliverring enough power to the USB ports. Calculated the power of the power supply is more than enough for all units. Also the Raspi power adapter is not supporting the needed energy to the USB-ports.
An USB-Drive HDD 3,5" with own power supply is working fine at the USB-port.
Is there any design failure in the boards itself?

[dominik]

This is rather raspberry pi 5 specific issue, some time ago it was not designed to pass 5A via GPIO, those were rated at 3A as far as I remember. And pi5 don’t know without PD if power source is capable of delivering such power so pmic is cutting that until You add some magic keyword to boot config.txt (maybe? usb_max_current_enable=1), have You already added those?
Double check system messages and pmic voltages. There may be some info why it’s slowing down.

[Howy]

r so pmic is cutting that until You add some magic keyword to boot config.txt

Dominik, thank you!
Now I understood the content of what you were saying.
Also described here in depth:
https://www.raspberrypi.com/documentation/computers/raspberry-pi.html#typical-power-requirements
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=361206

The Pi5 is delivering only 0,6A, as long as none original Power Supply 27W is connected. Obviously I have used a stronger supply with 60W for my setup with Penta Sata hat, 4 SATA SSD’s, fan unit top, fan for the Pi5 and USB-Ethernet 2,5Gbit Adapter.
By telling the Pi5 to use 1,6A instead of 0,6A, the 2,5" USB drive is now working.
In short:
sudo nano /boot/firmware/config.txt
add the line at the end:
usb_max_current_enable=1
save and reboot and it should work as Dominik suggested.
Check after reboot if it is enabled:
vcgencmd get_config usb_max_current_enable

Great, thanks again Dominik, you had the right feeling of the existing problem!