New ROCK 3A brought to you by Radxa and Rockchip

#21

I always get mixed up with Mac & Phy but the quad SGMII could terminate with a 5G chip and provide 5Gbe or dual SGMII with 2.5Gbe.
The SGMII is on the 3 lane 5Ghz Serdes and the PCIe3.0 is on the 2 lane 8Ghz Serdes and yeah it would cost extra to add a onboard chip but the sata & network bandwidth would be a strong unique selling point.

My thoughts where if you don’t want too many boards of your own competing in the same space that your model A & B should maybe more radically different.

Have a NVR/NAS style RockB format with an onboard 5Gbe chip that has clear focus and application.

Then keeping with the RockB format have a more general purpose AI/AOT board that maybe has 2x GBe as without bandwidth to pull via the network losing a lane on the PCIe 3 will not see difference in performance 800MBs is still much more than 1000Mbs (Then again 800MBs is a tad more that 5000Mbs).
But again you can add another Gbe via a m.2 e-key as if you where going to have a failover network would wireless be a need?

Even if you got a USB 5gbe adapter the ones I have seen only give approx + 1gbe over 2.5gb as gen1 USB is 5G and are labelled as USB3.0 not 3.1 and max out at about 3.5 and as opposed to 2.5gb adapters they are expensive.
So even if you bridged x2 you are still not going to get what your sata can produce (I think x3 cards gives approx x2 speed)

So for me the Rock3A with a PCIe 3.0 2x can only utilise a NVME SSD for a SBS that performance wise is between a Pi3 & Pi4 and I can not think of a rationale why you would have that sort of imbalance.
I have never seen a GPU yet due to the BAR size and all that, dunno if its possible or not but the 2 lanes on PCIe 3 is likely faster I/O than the CPU can process and sort of pointless.

So I can understand maybe where the initial proposals came from but the Rock3A with the fastest PCIe 3 M.2 you will ever not to find a use for, that comes in what wasn’t the greatest form factor of external M.2 daughter board.

I like the Rock3B format and I am network and USB bound so the loss of a PCIe 3.0 lane is no bother but if I had a wish then a dual stack PCIe connector or some sort of provision for 2x PCIe 3 x1 lanes would be preferable and I can choose if that is going to be a Nic, x2 or not.

Its the Rock3A that has left me totally lost as in use its likely it will not beat a RockPi4 in any way and after you add a M.2 e-key wifi/BT its probably going to be more expensive?

I think dropping Pi is all good but you just introduced a Zero so maybe keep the numbering to give an instant approximation that is common through your Arm range but add a suffix to maybe area of use or component implementation.

#22

M.2 wifi/bt cards are as low as 2.3$ if you just want functions and don’t care speed. Besides, if you replace your old laptop to the latest wifi6/6e cards, you have the spare one for your SBC.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-rtl8723be.html

#23

What you posted are not 802.11 ac wifi / Bluetooth 5.0 m.2 e-key that the Rock Pi4 has.
It doesn’t matter though as it was basically how close in end price they are and that the RockPi4 is probably better.

You seemed to be interested in opinion and the community was posting interesting alternatives.
After looking and thinking for a while that was my gut instinct and question of why are you just making another rockpi4 with maybe a little more power efficiency and less Ooomph?

Never have liked the Pico-Itx format before but when you can have 2x M.2 onboard it makes a lot of sense.
So scrap the Rock3A as there is such a little price difference the RockPi4 is just better in that format.

But if you want to make us drool and give a really strong selling point put a 5gb Phy chip on that board to match up to the QSGMII with the 2x lanes of PCIe 3 M.2.
The board becomes an amazing application router for anything you put into that m.2 slot.

Or if you can split that PCIe 3.0 and maybe a 3rd M.2 can be a daughter board and go m.2 crazy, but yeah I don’t get the Rock3A and the Pico-Itx for the first time makes a lot of sense.

How much would the 5Gbe Phy connected to the QSGMII add to the cost of the board?

All opinion is valid and purely for feedback, that is just my gut feeling but wow it is capable of 5gbe and that would be a really unique selling point, also the rock3a format is really just a lesser rockpi4.
You just filled that gap with the Radxa Zero as when working really it competes with a Pi3 not the zero but with the zero format so the Rock3a becomes crowded in your own product range and prob needs to be more unique.

#24

This needs USB to support Bluetooth on these same cards, great board otherwise!

#25

How does the Rock 3A compare to Rock Pi 4 in terms of performance, from what i understand RK3568 is more recent but somewhat less powerful?

#26

About that its clocked higher but much of the A55 was power saving so its more efficient, but prob better to think of as a 1.8Ghz pi3 with a tad extra. Prob about 40% between RPi3 & RPi4 and not really sure against RockPi4

RPi4 4x Cortex-A72 @ 1.5GHz vs Rock Pi4 2x Cortex-A72 @ 1.8GHz 4x Cortex-A53 @ 1.4GHz

Not really fair to compare at different clocks but likely my RPi400 @ 1.8Ghz is faster than the 2 core A72 as its 4x cores all the time.
So I view RockPi4 slightly less than a same clocked RPi4 if your going to add cooling which both really need @ 1.8ghz

#27

@stuartiannaylor in all benchmarks I’ve seen so far, RK3399 boards with 2xA72+4xA53 are faster than 4xA72 RPi4. Care to share benchmarks where RPi4 is faster than RockPi4?

RPi3 is just another class of board, due to vastly inferior IO which hampers it in every regard. Also its performance isn’t far from quad-A7 Allwinner H2+/H3 boards in most scenarios.

#28

How can 2x A72 be faster than 4xA72?

I don’t think I will bother trying to find a benchmark but obviously at the same clock its faster doing CPU based operations.

It was just a rule of thumb in gauging what is likely and where it will fall in performance and probably about the 40% mark between a PI3 & Pi4.

But until we get some actual benchmarks there is little point in fan boy arguments irrespective of who you are a fan of.

#29

It’s 2xA72+4xA53

You’re the first person I see claiming BCM2711 is faster than RK3399. There aren’t many benchmarks, but in every article comparing the two, RK3399 is described as faster than BCM2711. Most writers didn’t back their claims with benchmarks, those who did - did not describe the testing environment - but you’re not backing up your opinion in any way either…

#30

Can you show a picture/explain how the M.2 SSD will be attached? Will that be in the same fashion as the Rock Pi 4 with adaptor board, or can it be mounted directly on the board?

#31

USB will be on the m.2 E key to support BT, it’s confirmed to support for the next revision.

1 Like
#32

Can you recommend one 5G phy?

#33

Marvel 88E2010
Broadcom BCM84880

Likely Intel & microchip also but the first 2 where just a Google x1 price here seems about $30 so expecting China qty sourcing to reduce that.
$30 doesn’t matter as the value it adds is huge if you look at the value of 5gbe devices provide.
I think the cheapest USB3.0 5Gbe is currently $60 which gives 3.5Gbe so 2x aggregated prob will give just over 4.5Gbe, if you can so $120.

Realtek who seem to be a China favourite only do 2.5Gbe and don’t know of ‘China’ others so I was hoping it would be what you can source not I.
2.5gbe x2 is possible but doesn’t have the huge step value of 5Gbe.
“5GBASE-T SGMII phy” should give results.

A device with 2x PCIe lanes and a 5Gbe has far more value than say the $65 you could supply a complete board at.
As products such as Hellios64 NAS only available as a full bundle sold for USD $295.00 with a USB 2.5Gbe on a USB3.0 Hub which even not ideal shows the value of such product and that the bandwidth sata or 5g or maybe wifi could provide of 2x pcie 3.0 is pointless unless you have the bandwidth to get it off board.

But also with the Muxing of the Serdes that for some reason 2x extremely similar combinations for the RK3568 have been provided that are extremely similar to a Radxa product that already exists and is 35% faster in the RockPi4.

It actually has 3 native Sata ports and give a combination of 1x PCIe 3.0, 2 x PCIe 3.0 with 1 or x2 connectors.

There are a whole load of interesting combinations and confused to why what has been supplied is so close to what you already have and also 2 of them just in different format boards irrespective of a single Gbe change.
It will be interesting to what other combinations other suppliers provide as thinking this is an opportunity missed as the RK3568 as a SoC is quite a Wow!
Its the RK3566 that is the edge device.

0-pcie
RK3568-multiplexed-sata-usb-3.0-pcie.jpg592×569 82.4 KB

#34

where did u buy it from… i want to buy too , can u share link please

#35

They are still 1st revision trials and a limited qty but see what is left.

#36

How about Rock Lobster? The actual things (aka spiny lobsters) have 10 legs.

You could include a reference to the song as with the Amiga 500 motherboard.

2 Likes
#37

Rock lobster would be cool but don’t think 10x sata is any good when you can not pull the bandwidth.

I have been looking at the RK3566 & RK3668 and wondering if things have been released in an odd order.
The RK3568 is just the edge gateway for RK3566 edge devices so Rock3 will do but maybe add Rock3E for the RK3566 and Rock3G for the RK3568.

Does anyone know how much data you can get down a single 5Ghz Serdes lane and with overhead what is net bandwidth as can not work out if the muxing means they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Its strange though as I would of thought the RK3566 would of been released 1st with that RockPi4 style layout and just a single PCIe 2 lane on its m.2.
Those will make really interesting little devices whenever they do turn up and presume cheaper than the RK3568? Hopefully as presume so as its the lesser chip.

The the gateway boards you can have 3 native sata and not need a relatively expensive m.2 sata board and have a amazingly low cost 1gbe 3 disk NAS/NVR.
Still the amazing bandwidth is still bottlenecked and maybe the top board should be 5Gbe Phy and 2x lanes of PCIe where you do use a M.2 sata board. The Phy chips are approx $30 but it would create another board of amazingly low cost with that type of Disk to Net bandwidth

Those two could be the Rock3G-A & Rock3G-B maybe, the rk3566/rk3568 are really the same with just different I/O layout and probably should be a series under the same name.
Maybe various crabs :slight_smile:

Really interested to see the format and price of the RK3566 when it comes about as looking at those SoCs I think maybe its what Rockchip intended with one being the Edge device and the other being an Edge gateway for them.

1 Like
#38

Case options with active cooling?

#39

Hi, it would be a good one with 8GB for a home NAS. Are you going to release a few samples for testing? I am really interested.

Mainly interested in passive cooling, OTG and SATA interface.

Thank you for all the great work!!!

Armandooooo

#40

Yes that’s right, @SleepWalker Will be working on TrueNas image for Rk3566/3568.