a bit hard, as I’m getting older, my eyesights are not that good anymore 
I tried an adapter before… I have a MikroTik RB14e (I “found” it from reading Wiki) so I got a B-key to mini-PCIe adapter for my m.2 B-key LTE modem, but it never work; in turn I used an external chassis instead. I remember there were discussions on what “options” the top m.2 would be used for, but perhaps I’d confused Rock 5 with the 3 or E23 / E25.
yep, though the chip itself is not “readily for direct consumption”; if you were given a RK3588 chip, you would create a Rock 5 yourself (of course it is a much more complex task)? maybe you can, but I definitely can’t (and won’t have time to spend on this as a hobbyist).
When real work is done (with that I presume you mean drivers), it has to be ported to the mainline linux, which is not cheap nor simple. After its ported, someone has to maintain it - which is also real work. If none of that happens, things fall apart.
A lot of that dirty work falls into the hands of doers of Armbian community and regular maintainers, which receives close to no financial support for the time they waste doing that.
There are many examples, but I am sure you are familiar with the story about Allwinner video acceleration job, done by professionals. They did the job. They wrote drivers and they left it to the community since they have to eat and couldn’t stay more on the project.
How is the state of that “support” within mainline? Years after “real work” “driver development” was done? I know it’s not what we have expected.
After real work, work done and wishes with force from someone else customers:
SPI boot support
someone wants display which he knows it works with legacy (so its a problem of software, armbian in this case)
(https://forum.armbian.com/topic/19127-rockpi-4b-and-raspberry-pi-7-inch-touch-display/
USB OTG
DP also need support to mainline
fan support for mainline
Cameras as well:
U-boot upgrades are always trouble or at least time waste:
Bluetooth fix
Downgraded DDR blob for RockPi 4 to fix 1GB model boot issue
Switch ROCK Pi 4 to all blobs u-boot for Radxa’s SPI compatibility
… and on and on. But since only “real work” counts, why do I waste time?
If free sample comes without contract of some sort, samples are not even unpacked. When you will understand that board support is for us expense?
All HW vendors sell “Debian” / “Ubuntu” as a part of the package. So we can say they certainly want to look like a software developers. They sell “Linux HW” or at least association in some way.
Why would Armbian maintainers be stupid to invest once again (check about and multiply by 10-50 times for next hardware) their private time and money to support:
Try answer such questions …
That’s just one of the many examples where some bootloader ‘fixes’ at Armbian resulted in bricked boards, isn’t it? I mean you reference https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/2501 which just deals with a ‘fix’ that got lost somewhere inside Armbian’s build system and needed to be applied again?
This discussion here was about ‘how does RK3588 get better/mainline Linux support?’, right? I don’t see that such Armbian internals add anything to this (same with the other links you slapped into this forum) but of course I might be wrong and people considering themselves being part of the Armbian crowd will work on RK3588 once available…
That’s a question many ask in the meantime. Especially since you do this as excessive and again* and again. Most probably to generate some cash? But honestly that’s a question only you can answer.
BTW: by looking at https://forum.armbian.com/forum/22-board-bring-up/ I can’t find RockPi 4 at all. What’s the reason for this? No discussion ever happened? Armbian owner simply decided to do whatever strikes his head as usual?
Do you remember why this subforum exists? To limit the count of boards ‘we’ (me and Mikhail included back then) want to support.
Isn’t it funny that one guy all the time felt not bound to consensus of ‘the project’ while now the same guy is whining everywhere that he needs cash otherwise count of supported boards will be drastically limited?
* only morons believe censoring would work: https://archive.md/https://forum.armbian.com/topic/17148-random-rant/ 
@tkaiser I wouldn’t bother as Armbian does do a reasonable job of collating some fixes and putting into some images but you are correct it does none of the heavy lifting of kernel and driver fixes/dev.
I dislike Armbian because of the ‘fix’ scripts that for me are hacks rather than fixing DTS/Kernel/drivers also other scripts that seem to do similar to mailine scripts but only exist so they can carry the name Armbian.
I have never used the build system as supposedly that is quite good, but my lack of interest is probably purist as my opinion is Armbian is far too hacky.
So many scripts that are not normal debian/buntu that it can completely send you on a detour and much is not documented unlike debian/buntu is in great depth.
I guess Igor has to earn some $ and will post anything that might like vaguely like board implementation but really they are purely resharing and implementing the work of others but it does at least pull those collections into a single board image.
But for me its actually a negative for Armbian to be in use as I just really hate that its all one big script mechanism and not individual packages and a repo.
You know a lot about hardware, I have to admit, but it seems that you will never understand what software support and development is? How it function? What resources are needed? Difference between embedded, automotive and desktop Linux? And on and on …
Just a few % of people are able to see the benefits of what we do and I know you were never among them. From perspective you give, I would say you want exactly the same as average Joe. That everything works pitch perfect and that it never breaks down. Why this discussion at all?
Cash is not generated this way.
This is expression frustration, like you do it with your small problem - when some moron, you think it makes everything wrong, bricked your precious service. Have a backup and stop complaining.
Way too many people would like our help, also people that are selling those boards, but capacity to help is very very limited. With cash we can mitigate overflow, hire some help, with more of our private cash is just not possible to expand.
(Forgot to answer on this) Generating leverage?
I agree with that - here we only removed spam and garbage, which was moved to that thread. You had about half a year to read how “customers” doesn’t respect and understand that “no” means “no”. And that they have no rights to demands (or worse - manipulate and emotionally blackmail) attention for support, development or anything! When that fundamental principle is broken, things can and do easily go out of control. Wasn’t the first time, wasn’t only me and was certainly not the last time.
Armbian is, due to the nature of the hardware we are targeting, much closer to embedded world as to the desktop / server which is the only thing most of the people knows.
Who ever used Buildroot or Yocto, you would know what I am talking about. We provide simplification of those frameworks, but with certain limits. Some are very important, some not. When we come to the desktop / server world, other things become important.
It is very hard to get all things together and make everyone happy.
I am sorry Igor but I have looked at the scripts and it has nothing to do with intended market target its just the scripts and deployment IMO are very hacky.
It would not matter for me where I would use Armbian as I would not and the only time I have is when there isn’t an alternative image available.
I have used Buildroot and Yocto but without DTS/Kernel/Driver support it doesn’t matter as that is the cul-de-sac for me, but scripts and even building system I can do, in fact scripts I will do as I am really averse to the ones you do.
OMG. Did you really block out in your brain what I’ve done for the whole Armbian project?
It’s your attitude and you being in playground mode that sucks. If you decide to waste your time on something stupid as updating a bootloader (nobody asked for and nobody benefits from), then include this ‘fix’ into an Armbian repository and from then on boards get bricked in the wild then this is only the fault of one guy constantly playing around for no other reason than playing around.
It’s my good right as major contributor to Armbian being saved from such idiotic behaviour since this is not the result of ‘mistakes happen’ but unnecessary sloppyness.
Same with this stupid local privilges escalation you introduced just for fun. Someone with this sloppy attitude and this track record usually has only limited write access to repos
How many times did Mikhail and me tried to discuss this with you? And you still don’t understand anything.
Correct. Just a waste of time trying to argue/discuss with you. May this be a warning for anybody in trusting into Armbian. The project’s problem has 4 letters and will sooner or later single-handedly introduce stability or security problems just for fun…
Another thread got filled with Armbian rant. =\
Is it a 3588 trhead or something?
I think probably the Armbian debate probably doesn’t really need to be here.
I am hoping Radxa will revert back to a buildroot and their own repo’s but do understand as a hardware supplier they would probably like to outsource that.
I am really hoping the default image for the Rock5B is not Armbian however as I do want something more vanilla that may just include drivers and kernel backports.
Correct. To sum it all up: Linux on ARM sucks, board makers usually fail with providing good software and especially software support and Igor’s business model obviously doesn’t work.
Yeah I think the only way you can do it is to crowdfund support and have donate now on a issue basis of a single board and revenue will come from users.
Suppliers know the mainline DTS/Kernel/Driver process and what essentially Armbian does and don’t think there is any other way and if that doesn’t provide enough revenue then its because there is not a model.
Linux on Arm doesn’t need to suck but the revenue of the processes we see from Wintel/AMD just has no parallel with low cost SBC that are often just a showcase for bespoke design services.
Linux on x86 early days also sucked but now the herd has grown to a size where its self sufficient and active.
Apols about Armbian bashing Igor as you have given images for many boards with no other but yeah if I want a quick image to test a board my preference is via the Manjaro guys and hopefully they have a headless image to start with.
I really don’t like many of the scripts and that it seems unitary for many boards and as I say if its the only image and I want to do quick tests of a new board I will use Armbian if no other exists, but only then.
Funny, I think the same. Just for different reason - we can’t cover expenses of support. You know how this game works while users wants that things function … Why dealing with unnecessary frustration? Why?
I think you should know why that is not that as simple as it might sounds. Nobody forces you to use Armbian. Use whatever. Its about support. If something doesn’t work - why do you bug us. Bug vendor, Rockchip, whoever. That’s the core of the problem. Why should we be early adopters to fix all troubles, free of charge and loose on reputation (armbian works terrible - due to bad low level support.)
Its all about you. Again. And me.
Well it was a first but Radxa for some reason choose to use unsupported Armbian for a release image on the Radxa Zero so yeah for initial tests I had no other choice.
Same with some other boards and no nobody forces me to use Armbian as when there is a convenient alternative I don’t.
Once again. It’s about support expenses. Use whatever you like. I am not saying Armbian is the best OS and everyone should use it. There are alternatives, some are better, some worse, some just different … but you remember my reaction when you started asking us about why this and that hardware function in Armbian images Radxa made without our knowing, were not working. Imagine that I would meet 10 people with the same question in one day?
Actually I didn’t ask anything as didn’t need to ask anything as I was talking to one of yur community members telling him one of your hdmi hotplug fixes screws up the display on a Radxa Zero.
Minus one of your scripts things worked fine but somehow it was included in the image.
I purely was mentioning one of scripts seems to cause problems and I do remember your reaction and rant of why a user like me expects support when that board is unsupported.
Like I say I don’t need your support, I don’t like what you do and wow I will not mention what I think of your atitude as hopefully we will never meet in a pub
Thanks Igor but no thanks as I am not a fan of Armbian and also now if there is anything I could contribute to you guys I think I will just stay quiet.
What if I am trying on mirroring general attitude of communication? Have you thought about that? 
Perhaps a bit depersonalized because I am trying to help you understand how users attitude looks like. Try picture that. A crowd of frustrated and insecure people asking questions and are mainly getting no response (no resources) and when they get it is not what they were asking (we tell them there are no resources dealing with them).
Put away that I am jerk, perhaps I am, and my attitude sucks sometimes, but it is such by purpose. It is a defense. I can’t answer all questions that are asked and certainly not at any time you want. If I am polite, people doesn’t stop asking questions and this will never stop. Its 24/7. Very few people has little to ask or are limited in asking and requesting. Linux, or our world to be more generic, has thousands of issues in many ways. If we limit just on technical ones.
If you don’t want to help us helping you, help someone else. Toward anyone that are contribution towards (Linux) community. Also if our work is too difficult or to simple, I am sure, you’ll find something that fits you.
P.S.
You are always welcome to stop by for a beer. At least we have something to discuss about.
@stuartiannaylor @igorp please calm down we don’t have those boards yet, but they really look promising in specs. I hope that rk3588 will be something like rk3399 is today and more powerful devices will come. Right now I feel excited about rock5, hope to get it ASAP
@radxa: somebody asked about EU distributor, any plans? Of corse both ameridroid and allmet ships here, but it takes ages and it’s sometimes problematic 