The Khadas VIM3 Pro makes for a relatively tolerable overall desktop experience, and my hope is that the RK3588 will be superior to the VIM3’s Amlogic A311D CPU in all areas (including price).
ROCK 3B ideas and discussion
Actually it doesn’t, GPU on RK3566/RK3568 uses Mali G52 1-core 2EE(1 Shader core and 2 Execution Engines) capable of 38.4GFLOPS and 1600Mpix/s fill rate when 800mhz clock frequency. In comparison Mali T860MP4 GPU found on RK3399(RockPi4 A/B/C/B+) is capable of 100GFLOPS. FYI, It’s not the same as Mali G52MP6 GPU found on amlogic S922X/A311D SoC’s.
Mesa/Collabora agreed to call RK3566/RK3568 GPU as “G52L” to distinguish from other G52 variants, where “L” stands for Lite.
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Yeah its the RK3588 we need and damn those silicon queues!
Doesn’t matter what GPU it has when its CPU architecture to back the GPU that is needed as in the RK3588
@Larry with edge devices the esp32-s3 hopefully will become really interesting and then currently as a central device my best option is some of the embedded X86 platforms as not all NN frameworks run complete on Arm.
None cloud, big data AI can work really well but the central home ‘Brain’ still needs considerable power but as opposed to edge devices its cost is singular.
I have a 2nd user i5 4th gen NuC for backup desktop and my main desktop is a I7 6700 so its all about opinion but for me my previous RockPi4, current RPi 400 and prob that Vim pro would not make the grade of what I call a usable desktop.
Its not much of a bother as where I have been looking is MQTT edge devices and gateways, wireless multimedia, NAS & NVR and feel that the RK3566/RK3568 could of been perfect but are being forced to be something that they are not. Very much not in the case of the RK3566. The NPU & Mali are great AI co-processors that probably will make some really great devices that maybe could of been better and more cost effective.
I am just going to play with the Radxa Zero instead that feel is a better fit at its price point to what I am going to play with.
Might make a great network KWS & wireless audio receiver where the Pi0 really struggled, in fact it beats the Pi3A+ which is my fave builders device.
Desktop when the RK3588 does arrive I will prob give one a try if its a bit more cost effective than that Vim3 pro.
All of this now has me questioning as to just what nitch (if any) the RK3566/3568 CPU complete with it’s effectively (or figuratively) castrated Mali G52 GPU is trying to fill?
If you had the RK3566 then it makes a lot of sense as a low cost IoT AI device with NPU and GPU co-processor as the ARM NN libs allow you to use a Mali in similar way you use CUDA.
You can partition and delegate certain layers to NPU/GPU and lighten the load on CPU.
The higher cost gateway/co-ordinator RK3568 makes less sense on its own than say as a high bandwidth MQTT broker or the extremely strong parallels as a NAS for its NVR connected devices.
They where never ‘desktop’ or ‘gaming’ socs even if they do have extremely strong video functionality, the RK3566/RK3568 where this sort of symbiotic pairing for IoT that seems to make less sense as a singular SBC.
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what do we lose if we implement 2x PCIe 3.0 on bottom m.2 slot, PCIe 2.1+USB+SIM on top m.2 slot?
After reviewing all your discussion and targeting 3B as a general purpose SBC, here is our final decision:
- PCIe 3.0 x2 on the bottom for m.2 M key
- M.2 B key for PCIe 2.1(muxed with SATA), USIM and USB, support both 4G and 5G cards, as well as 2242 SATA SSD(need to test)
- SDIO WiFi/BT will be on board, WiFi 6/BT 5
- remove the SATA 7P connector, since we are a compact SBC, the 2.5inch SSD is not good with enclosures, if you want to use 2.5 inch SSD, we can provide a M.2 B key to SATA breakout board
I hope everybody would be happy.
If you have other ideas, we can implement with the CM3+, the planned carrier board for CM3+ is Radxa E25:
- 2x 2.5G 8125B, one via pcie3 x1, one via pcie2 x1
- MINI PCIe for AP WiFi cards, via pcie3 x1
This can make E25 a small router/CPE device.
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These changes look fantastic for a multi-purpose SBC!
I definitely see a use case here even with single radio, however have to ask - would it be possible to put both 2.5G on a single pcie3 lane, like on this dual RTL8125 card, to have additional minipcie with pcie2 link for second radio? Also, will there be additional GBe port(s) on this (e.g. 1GBE for WAN, 2x 2.5GBE for LAN)?
Yes, there is.
If Radxa may release some RK3588 networking SBC or carrier board for RK3588, with 2x or 3x slots for wireless radios - then E25 is perfectly fine with single radio.
One more thing worth investigating would be SDIO radios, like you did on Rock 3B. They all seem to have quite limited signal strength, but if price of adding one is not very high, or it is possible to add a e-key m.2 slot wired to SDIO without increasing price or complexity of the board much, such radio may be acceptable for 2.4GHz band if user wants to have 2400Mbps 5GHz or 6GHz-only radio in miniPCIe slot. But again, if there will be upcoming RK3588 SBC / SoM + carrier board with 2x-3x minipcie slots for radios, this is kinda irrelevant - those who are happy with single radio will get the E25, others will step up to RK3588 product.
May i confirm will the b key be routed with USB2 or USB3?
Yes, B key for 4G or 5G modules.
I’m still desperately searching for a good SBC for micro clusters… POE, Gigabit Ethernet, lots of ram, some onboard emmc, and not much else needed.
How about 24 core, 64GB ram arm64 SBC? The questions is, how much do you want to pay for it.
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I think you are missing the point as the above was just a suggestion to what was missing and actually a quite simple but specific specification.
In the Radxa range we have a very cluttered range of very similar general purpose SBC and not one as far as I am aware has 8gb Ram that may lend it self to ‘server’ solutions.
When you do have a SoC with unique features such a 8Gb and also ECC then its likely you could charge a premium for specification especially as Armsoc server ram has always been fairly limited when its an often wished requirement.
The RK3566 & RK3568 have some really unique functional specifications that have been glossed over with general purpose hardware of a bit of everything that end up making SBC very close to what is already included in your own product range, with further to come.
8gb ECC could of been possible and would of had unique applications, specifications and probably price point and the 24 core, 64GB reply in an ideas and discussion forum is a tad strange for a few reasons.
Its not my choice but a simple SBC with 8gb is as valid as any other and likely as long as reasonable people would pay for it for specific applications.
You could’ve got one today, but it’s facing a component supply like most, (Odroid-H2+) + 32Gb of RAM + 4 additional 2.5 GbE Ethernet ports(PoE) = $119+$144+$47= $310
And you will need also a 15V/4A PSU = $9.40 and a H2 Type Case = $16
eMMC is removable.
Giving a grand total of = $336 without including shipping.
Now You get an idea what you’re wishing for.
We are in the Rock3B thread so the request I guess was for a simple layout with 8gb as that is the SoCs max, or maybe should of been explained.
The 4x Nic on the Odroid H2 Net Card can be purchased on Hardkernel store for $47 plus shipping and is an example of an addon and if needed then the cost is what it is.
Talking about ram though as we have always been limited the RockPi5 RK3588 supposedly is a max of 32Gb and should be interesting to what is offered, but that is another thread.
hi hipboi,
i would like to see board which will use of ptp v2.1 phy (ieee 1588-2019 with avb, tsn profiles) for networking, instead of realtek’s phys.
it opens usage in ‘cutting’ edge, like automotive, industrial, profi audio/video broadcasting.
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Hello,
there is a post on https://shop.allnetchina.cn/ stating an estimated batch for rock 3A, may i ask if there is a planned date for rock 3B?
The RK3568 GMAC do support the following:
- Support Ethernet packet timestamping as described in IEEE 1588-2002 and IEEE 1588-2008 (64-bit timestamps given in the Tx or Rx status of PTP packet). Both one-step and two-step timestamping is supported in TX direction
Which phy do you recommend? I think RTL8211FG-VS-CG will work?
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3B is still in new revision design. It should be available in Oct.